We can talk about creep, reset, break, pull weight, but my primary concern/factor on choosing any gun, is reliability (no/little malfunctions, eats all ammo, can run dirty) I told a few of my shooting buddies, just busting their balls, “hey, maybe you need to build up your gripping/finger strength and endurance.”. I agree with the softer shooting feel of the P365. The fact is, they feel in the hand and shoot on the range like fraternal twin brothers. I was, The P365 has a chassis system, just like the P320. So much for “American made.” We finally cut it open with a grinder and torch. We took it to the range and tried to get it NOT to work. The Hellcat has a finger safety on the trigger, which will please those who prefer that feature. If the p365’s texture did the same, it would looks closer to the same width. It was a serious enough of a problem that I no longer carry a Glock for anything, I have enough more esthetic paperweights. Tolerances of the 365 are top notch. The only problem so far with the P365 is the 12rd mag is a P250 mag with a loose adapter spacer. Width: 1″ And there are aftermarket upgrade options (night sights, springs). Not to mention restrike capability and can also fire without a mag inserted. Assuming for the moment that your take on SA and the Dealer Licensing Bill was, in fact, accurate, and the solution was to punish them for it, what manufacturers are there left to buy from? Both pistols have excellent triggers. 7. I have two Glocks and never have problems with them either. But maybe you are that one in a million that will need it. Oh, if you don’t get through more than a few boxes of ammo every range outing you may not notice. There are likely others I am not aware of or have forgotten about…. Here are 3 shots from the draw with the Hellcat. All Rights Reserved. Also, trigger dingus. Your life depends on it. It functions flawlessly now. In regard to the TCP’s, they are sweet little pistols. My thumbs sit on it and prevent it from engaging the slide after the last round is fired. I … The return rate for even the initial batch were well within industry standards it was not like most of the first gen pistols had problems. Width: 1″ Sold my Glock to buy a P365 last year. It’s a neat feature we rarely see in guns. Close. Luckily, this is America, and I can happily own both. A company screwing it up for the little guy need to be ignored. Springfield bad. We’re all so impressed that you “used to be poor” but now you are rich. From gold plated guns to pocket rockets. All for half (or less) than what these SIG and Springfield pistols cost. This picture could be a little deceiving. Both guns have reversible magazine releases. I went with the 365XL and carry the 15 round mag for my backup, same magazine with the alternate floor plate that ships with it. Absolutely hate the goofy U-Notoch sights on the Hellcat. I know which brand more experienced shooters are going to choose the majority of the time (365’s initial release growing pains aside). The guns are similar in the fact that they lack any manual safety. So it’s probably as reliable as the SIG. The SIG P365’s trigger is also smoother and more refined. I wish Ruger would copy the sub2000. Barrel Length: 3.1″ “Micro-compact” pistols like the SIG Sauer P365 SAS and Springfield Armory Hellcat OSP are setting the stage for a new era in concealed-carry handguns. Not hugely stiffer, but it’s very clearly noticeable. I put a Crimson Trace laser on my PPK/S. Seems Springfield forgot to put me on their list for T&E copies. They have a few differences. The u-notch sights and other changes are suposed to prevnets snags, what snags? MSRP: $569 (Std), $599 OSP (OSP) model – $499 and $529 retail, Height: 4.3″ Retired Police Colonel; I encountered many types of handguns over the years. Piss on Springfield Armory for selling out the 2 A,they will never produce a arm that I have any interest in. The biggest difference is likely the angle of the magazine baseplate, with the SIG’s canted toe down. Not a bad gun, don’t care about the extra round, don’t care about the red dot and I found that the Springfield had more recoil. I’m afraid that Springfield may have let the industrial designers win an argument with the engineers on this one. the one with the 3 12 round pinky finger mags from PSA. I just today handled a Hellcat with shield dot at my LGS. And it has been doing that since the first PT111 (its previous version). Springfield Hellcat vs Sig P365: Fit and Finish I too, am having issues with the Hellcat misfeeding as well as, I think the accuracy at 25 yards is horrible. I may never use it, but I like the idea of having it. If we were just doing a P365 vs Hellcat sights article, the Hellcat would win. For those that still harp on the “Would you trust your life to a Taurus” bandwagon, you buy what you want and I’ll but what I want. So who comes up in a P365 vs Hellcat contest? The sites look aligned with the factory etching however, I would have to give the HellCat a failing grade. I already have a 43 for EDC but the Sig is “roundier” and doesnt take all the fiddling to make the trigger better (I have Talo night sights). No offense, lol. Best side to side review of any two weapons, ever read. It premiered, had a few faults, was promptly fixed, and went on to be one of the best selling carry guns of 2018. Both guns have a slide lock that’s basically useless with my hands. Got the same problem in CA. You are aware that even the G2c comes with 12 round mags from factory. At the end of the day, trigger is key. Was very impressed. SA changed their ways, but it still belongs to the same people. Extremely good. I have a Tavor and Glock and I shoot them well. There’s no way I will give Springfield Armory my money. I shot a magazine through my SIG, then a mag through the Springfield. The CCW pistol market continues to grow and the P365, after some initial reported QC issues, has proven to be a fantastic gun. For some time the P365, with its remarkably small size and ten-round capacity initially had no real challengers. Is this a term yet? Okay. Recoil wise, the SIG P365 seems to have less recoil and muzzle flip. The slippery slide and harder pull back of the Hellcat is also a concern. I was a little startled when I cracked off the first round. Both guns feature excellent sights, but I prefer the U Dot sights. If you would test some with the Sig ammo and see how it goes as like to know if mine is a one off vs. a common problem they have being finicky with some ammo. Reliability wise, both guns are top-notch performers. Don’t let anyone put you down for the Taurus mfg.. Sticking with my G43…. The p365 is about the same size as a g43. Now, considering how short the Hellcat’s accessory rail area is anyway, you’ll find that various lights don’t actually fit, but many will. Fortunately for us, recent introductions to the market have set new benchmarks in the capacity-versus-size game. My 365 currently has about 1100 rounds through it with zero malfunctions so they’re working flawlessly for me and countless others. It’s just like cars – both a VW bug and a Jaguar XJ12 will reliably get you from point A to point B – it just depends on what bragging rights you want to go with it. The democrats are coming back for more, with increasing demands for over the top security features that small gun stores will not be able to afford. Posted by 1 year ago. One tough gun! I can’t do that with the Hellcat. Sale I don’t think I’m gonna consider getting one of the new ones (unless it’s a gift). I can get on target and shoot rapidly with these sights too. Yes, something like that matters. The SIG P365 is just a hair lighter at 17.8 ounces when compared to Springfield’s 17.9 with the flush-fitting magazine. Just because a horse stumbles once you don’t shoot it…..now if it becomes a habit. In the mean time I bought a Hellcat, functions flawlessly, right out of the box and carries one more round than the Sig. This is why I could drop the chassis into a metal frame from Icarus Precision and rock and roll. Pocket Pistols Springfield Hellcat 9mm. Their past political machinations make that even more of a checkmark in the “Con” column. After the advent of the P365, the concept of the micro-compact carry gun was drastically changed. P365 & Hellcat vs Single and Subcompacts. In a higher priced firearm we expect the fit etc. Overall Length: 6″ Except, perhaps, for the additional round of 9mm the Hellcat magazine holds. Tavor’s trigger is good and GLOCK is even perfection. Thanks for the comparo Jeremy. SIG does not offer the P365 standard in an optics-ready design and reserves the optics-ready version for the P365 XL. but since the Sig and Hellcat are basically the same size, then it comes down to performance. P365 SAS vs Hellcat Purchase. I shoot tens of thousands of rounds every year and do not discriminate regarding which pistol I take out any particular day. In fact, I landed two shots in one hole from a draw-and-fire drill at 10 yards. Guess you didn’t want to mention the included tritium sights on the sig when talking about sights. I agree. It straightens out eventually, but it is always more pronounced at longer ranges. I’ve had a P-11 for a couple decades now. Handled the Hellcat two separate times. It looks pretty good as a low cost night sight option(I’m spending all my $ on AR15 stuff!). Jeremy strives to collect objective data whenever possible, and looks to write accurate reviews that reflect the true user experience. The real world is waiting. $93.00. I’m sick of hearing from people who maybe at best put a few rounds through their pistol every few months or so lecture about which are reliable and which are not. You cannot be such a snowflake there Chance. The SIG is 58 inches long with a 3.1-inch long barrel. He holds an NRA certification as a Basic Pistol Instructor and is the world’s Okayest firearm’s instructor. The Hellcat is a fantastic pistol and it more than holds its own when compared head-to-head with the P365. Pro P365- mild recoil, slightly thinner throughout, better slide serrations. I love to shoot it as much as my new Glock 43. The SIG P365 is just a hair lighter at 17.8 ounces when … Two calls to Sig, and each time I was told I needed to put at least 500 rounds through the gun and polish the feed ramp before I could expect it to function properly. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/heads-up-sig-p365-vs-springfield-hellcat And this is the Hellcat in front of the P365. Shut the company down, and let someone honest use the tooling and dies to make something worthwhile. In my view the Spectrum, which replaced the TCP, is not nearly as good as the TCP. It premiered, had a few faults, was promptly fixed, and went on to be one of the best selling carry guns of 2018. Both are light enough not to chafe when carried but deep enough to give a good solid grip. The SIG P365 is a little taller at 4.3 inches compared to Hellcat’s 4-inch height. Inexpensive and Light but that’s where the goodness ends. Just a small correction I’d like to point out, the P11 actually has a 12 + 1 capacity with a flush fitting magazine… It only comes from the factory with a 10 round magazine to keep it compliant with states that have magazine capacity limit laws. Up to .10 seconds faster. Literally the same dispersion in the same place, with a few more enlarging that center hole. Then Sig brought out the P365 XL. The P365 has a chassis system, just like the P320. If you lay off the booze, weed and start to work hard, maybe even you can get to the point where extra $200 for better pistol is not a big deal. My best grouping with the P365 at 25 yards. Any other 1″ thin, 10+ capacity, carry pieces in the works by any other manufacturers? The guns display many other comparisons and contrasts as well. Is the Lifecard Credit Card pistol worth having? The SIG P365 performs exceptionally well with the 365 V-Crown 115 grain loads optimized for a gun like the P365. Its pull is noticeably lighter than the Hellcat’s trigger. The P365 and Hellcatboth offer doublestack capacity in a package the size of a single stack. The Hellcat comes in two flavors, standard, and OSP. As a result, my Sigs outperform all other 9mm firearms I’ve owned in terms of shooter comfort and accuracy and it’s not even close. Never seen a Glock malfunction (Perfection dontchaknow). I just can’t trust a pistol that doesn’t work all the time no matter how much Sig assures me that all the bugs are fixed. So the G26 will be wider than the Hellcat, but I'm not sure how much. The taurus is more along the lines of a g26 with a longer grip. I bought a P11 back around 2000 and the thing malfunctioned constantly. My wife has a p365 with the thumb safety, which I like, and has never malfunctioned; it’s an excellent firearm. X-Grip H&K P2000SK 9mm/ .40 S&W/ .357 SIG 9/10-Round Magazine Grip Adapter, KCI AR-15 .223/5.56mm 30-Round Magazine (Black Polymer), Bulgarian AK-47 7.62x39mm 30-Round Reinforced Steel Lug Polymer Magazine, Walther P99 .40 S&W 11-Round Factory Magazine, Magpul MBUS Back Up Front and Rear Sight Set, 2018 was the year of the SIG P365. Also you need to educated yourself why they are cheaper. However, I could still land effective shots with the Hellcat much quicker. $39.99, Sale With the optic mounted I tend to just karate chop the darn thing, so no concerns there. The Springfield pistol also has a one-slot Picatinny rail, whereas the SIG’s rail is a proprietary design. MSRP: $599 (as low as $499 via Brownells). The Hellcat is another option for some but just having handled it twice it is it only took me a few minutes to put it down and walk away. The SIG just seems to fit better and conceals easier. That said, even when I was close and shooting, the SIG’s groups were often smaller. Both guns are quite small. What do you even think that says? Springfield for their deceit in selling out Illinois gun dealers and Sig for their rush to put the product out and have so many malfunctions early on. I get my hands on a Hellcat for T&E in the coming days. The G26 is significantly wider than the P365. The P365 proved you could take a tiny gun, and cram ten rounds into it and have it take up the same space as a single stack 9mm. We got the Glock 48 and 43X, which offer ten rounds in a slightly bigger platform, and SIG released the big… Roastinhell. And isn’t that the main consideration for a carry gun? I love all of my handguns but have a soft spot for the .380. The Hellcat has slide serrations that go over the top. The Hellcat is 6 inches overall with a 3-inch barrel. To really put the SIG Sauer P365 into perspective, I thought it’d be prudent to compare it to one of the benchmark guns in the CCW market: the Glock G43. Before we finish up, I want to bring up three differences that are worth noting. These groups are nearly identical in size. But without the optic it’s surprisingly easy to slip right off the back of the Springer’s slide. Comparisons were an obvious immediate demand and both continue to occupy a special place in the concealed carry world. From the top of the slide to the bottom of the trigger guard, the P365 is “shorter” than the Hellcat, so the position of the trigger is more forward and higher, as well as being more “undercut” for the lack of a better term. I have three Springfields and have never had any problems whatsoever. As far as small guns, both are comfortable to shoot. . Do you value your life so little? And so on and so on, including but not limited to the P365. However, in my testing and experience, the P365 is more accurate at longer ranges. The two pistols weigh within like half an ounce of each other. We tried cutting it apart on a Industrial band saw, wore down the blade. There are a few reasons. Of course, that extra round and optics mount are absolutely nothing to sneeze at. I’d buy the regular p365 if I could. Not happy at all. That’s nothing to sneeze at in a segment made hugely popular exclusively because of increased capacity over the competition. Get yourself a Glock and a smartphone. SIG’s mag cutouts make it easier to grip the magazine. S&W seems to be riding the wave of going as thin as possible. The SIG takes a little smack, and the Hellcat does not. For some time the P365, with its remarkably small size and, Both are excellent triggers, but the P365 is better, in my opinion. Originally, the P365 was slated to ship with SIGLITE night sights, but now it ships with the company’s excellent X-RAY3 day/night sights. I have been carrying the 365 since almost 18 months too, and I love it. Barrel Length: 3″ I could see myself being attracted to an ultra-small, relatively high capacity carry gun that’s equipped with a red dot. When it comes to build type, operating system, feature set and magazine capacity, the PPQ SC and the P365 are pretty much on par with each other. Increased my accuracy for 60 year old eyes. SIG has obviously gone through several major issues with the P365, and theoretically addressed them, but there are still reports of a higher than normal failure rate. The SIG P365 and the Springfield Hellcat OSP (Jeremy S for TTAG) But that’s all until the head-to-head comparison post later this week. Price is secondary, but in my case low price (my Taurus was $239) was attractive, and if the pistol hadn’t been reliable, I wouldn’t have been out much money. The guns are comfortable and fun to fire. can anyone tell me if there is a difference in recoil? Sig’s little 9mm has made a big splash in the market, and it changed what concealed carry looks like. But we’re talking really small differences here and any advantage could easily be reversed in a different location at a different angle. I took to range 3 times and had same issue even after cleaning it. Screw the 365 and piss on springfield. If you would rather trust your life to a Taurus versus a Sig over 2-300 bucks be my guest. I’d handicap dense urban areas specifically so they can’t overwhelm more sparsely populated areas. Kias drive just fine, you guys need stronger arms to handle the steering wheel better. I know this isn’t a fair comparison however, my S&W MP40 Shield, first round out dead on bullseye. Has ANYONE used Glow-On phosphorescent paint on their 3 dot sights? Jeremy is TTAG's Deputy Editor, working mostly behind the scenes but, when he attempts to write, he focuses on comprehensive gun & gear reviews. It was easier to line them up and drop the dot into the white U and pull the trigger. We cut them all up after the court cases were adjudicated. I couldn’t repeat that performance with the Hellcat. Travis Pike is a former Marine Machine Gunner, a lifelong firearms enthusiast, and now a regular guy who likes to shoot, write, and find ways to combine the two. Yes, I would trust my life to a Taurus. Now there’s a platform that will never be reliable. Notice the Stand-Off device on the Hellcat. I own a bunch of Springfields and they simply always work as good as any Gun made, I hate glocks because of the way they feel in my hand, the most unergonomic platform ever. The nice version would be electoral colleges per each state. Seems like something S&W, Walther, HK, Glock would be all over. Not a fan of Springfield anyway, so the newest offering from them isn’t likely to change my opinion in general. Weird backstrap transition issues aside, I have been carrying the 15-round job as my backup magazine and, on the range, it shoots just fine. It seemed like a nice little easily concealable 9mm. No regrets! Yes, yes, what’s one measly round? I am surprised there is not more difference in triggers. Rauner in his bid for reelection. I’ve been using the SIG sights for almost two years now, but I’m still faster with the U Dot Sights. Especially between two guns that are, up until this point and for all practical purposes, almost identical. In the hand the Hellcat has squarer edges whereas the P365 is rounder. Rather important when wearing gloves. The SIG P365’s sights are certainly better suited for long-range firing. Again, no major differences that constitute a win or fail in this portion of the comparison. The P365 feels softer because of it’s obviously lower bore axis. Aging eyes. Comparing all these Tubberware pistols seems like comparing apples to apples. I own 2 365s and just bought my 2nd Hellcat. P365 10 round extended magazine height: 4.5"; 12 round extended magazine height: 4.7"; 15 round extended magazine height: 5.5"; When it comes to grip shape and how it feels in hand the P365 feels more comfortable to me. And, once you reach a certain (financial) point in life, money becomes far less of a concern. Selling out the 2A. In fairness, this could very well be due to familiarity, as I have years worth of P365 experience. Digging up Bill Ruger’s decisions from the 1960s and 70s is not the same as 2019. Which micro compact is better? As far as Micro Compacts go, I only ever carry them in summer otherwise I’m carrying the XDM Compact .40 with the 16 round extended mag. I have never had any malfunction of any kind. Hmm, I have a 9mm Taurus PT111 G2 – about the same size and features, very reliable, and 12+1 capacity. Importing crap. The first two are rather important and interesting, the third is kind of important, and the last is just neat. This is why I could drop the chassis into a metal frame from, 5 Tips to Make Your Concealed Carry Handgun Disappear, Welcome to the Family | SIG SAUER adds the P220 Legion Carry SAO, Magazine Location and the Pistol Caliber Carbine, Tenicor CERTUM3: "optimized carry, unprecedented adaptability", Springfield Hellcat Holster: yours thanks to Crucial Concealment | Breach Bang Clear, The Mag Fed Remington 870: A Practical Update to a Timeless Classic. Which one do you think I carry. I myself have many of the high end guns as well as the lower end priced guns. The guns display many other comparisons and contrasts as well. Its popularity continued well into 2019. They just sent back to me saying no issues found as they tested with Federal HST. to be better and it usually is. Hellcat issue. No earth-shattering revelations here. This won’t make much difference if you draw from a holster, but it makes a huge difference if you draw fr… I own a Keltec P11 and I would not depend on it in a fight. Anyone having issues? The DAO trigger is crappy enough even if you didn’t have a pinky dangling and I use an oiled Q-tip on the feed ramp every 50rnds or so, or even 115gr fmjs will fail to feed.
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